Love & Sex: What I’ve Learned Since Leaving Watchtower

Growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness (JW) can warp and twist a young person’s mind about many activities, sex in particular. At least that’s how it was for me.

Sitting in the Kingdom Hall as a young child, I would hear talks about sex, but they were, for the most part, warnings about what not to do—what was moral and what was not— but mostly not. Masturbation was wrong, mutual masturbation was wrong, and both oral and anal sex were wrong. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I would think: Okay, those things are wrong, but I don’t even know what those wrong things are. So I promised myself that as soon I found out what the heck they were, I would never do them.

As I grew up, I came to understand what sex is really all about, according to Watchtower teachings. It’s how you make babies, right? Well yes, but I also learned that sex was something that married couples do or “due”, as in “paying your dues”. Wifely dues were something the husband wanted but the wife didn’t particularly like.

I also heard from the platform and from people at the Hall how it was not good for a man to be alone; that he needed a wife to satisfy his sexual needs. Men who remained single too long may not function properly and women needed to be available for marriage to the single brothers; that it was “selfish for a woman to stay alone when there were brothers available.” The only exceptions were for women who “pioneered” full-time.

This misinformation about sex didn’t mute my interest in it, but it warped and twisted my understanding of a male/female relationship.

I divorced my husband for spousal abuse at the age of twenty-two. That created other problems, which forced me to leave the so-called “truth.” After getting over the “All men are evil and must be destroyed” depression, I jumped full throttle into the “dating pool.” I put “dating” in quotations, because as ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses know, JWs don’t really “date.” Dating leads to sex, therefore it’s better to get married as soon as possible, because dating = sex. Needless to say, I didn’t know what I was doing. All I knew was that men wanted and needed sex.

I became a “love ‘em and leave ‘em” type. I still had the weird idea, despite the JW belief that fornication is wrong, that dating = sex. You see, my idea of the “love” men have for women, wasn’t the same kind of “love” women feel for men. My understanding was that men love sex, and the “love” they feel for a woman or even their kids—I still marvel over fathers who WANT to play with their kids—was more of an ownership kind of love – like they’d love their car, TV, or fishing pole. Theirs was a “I love it because it’s mine” love – and not connected to any real emotion or feeling.

In my late twenties I started rebuilding my life. I had a severe drinking problem by this time, and needed to sober up. In doing so, I learned about being human. I will never forget one conversation I had over coffee with a group of people while we were talking about my view of relationships. One of the guys in the group looked at me in horror, and said, “Maaan, you are cold and heartless, men have feelings too.”

“Whaaa? Please explain!”

He went on to say that men had feelings and I was just breaking hearts, and how cruel I was. But I couldn’t make that connection. “What do you mean men have feelings?” Since I believed that it wasn’t in a man’s nature to love, I honestly thought I was doing the man a favor by leaving. It never occurred to me that I was hurting anyone. Men only wanted sex, right? Wasn’t it my “job” as a woman to give sex? That’s what women do, right? I needed to call a time out!

I was finally entering the “kindergarten stage” of dating and learning about relationships, setting boundaries, and valuing myself as something more than just a twenty-eight year old orifice. To be honest, it was overwhelming and I had no idea where to start.

While whining to a friend about dating, it occurred to me that I didn’t know how to date. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was insecure – feeling that if I wasn’t with another person, people would think there was something wrong with me – that it was better for me to be with someone than it was to be single—a weird self-image.

After much whining, my friend challenged me. “Either you’re going to move to the solution or you are going to shut the hell up, because I have better things to do with my time.” I wanted help, so I decided to move to the solution.

She went on to say that I needed a good dose of self-respect and presented me with a “homework assignment.” I would take a break from dating and make a list of twenty-five things I liked about myself. She said, “If you can’t think of twenty-five things you like about yourself, you really have nothing to offer anyone.”

Ouch! It took over six months for me to come up with a list of twenty-five things – not an easy assignment.

When I finished that, she had me create another list of twenty-five qualities that I wanted in a partner. Looks and money were not allowed. “If you can’t think of at least twenty-five qualities, you don’t know what you are looking for.”

Then we moved to a list of twenty-five things that I’d like to have in a relationship with a guy. She said, “If you can’t list at least twenty-five things, you don’t know what you want.”

During this time while I was making lists and learning about myself, I was living in a no-date zone. I was learning about and setting up boundaries. I was learning how to say “no.” I was interacting with men as individuals, not just as potential dates. I began to realize that I had value as a person, not just someone who pays “dues,” and kept up the no-date-zone for a while. I became particular – maybe even rather “picky” – about who I wanted to date. Dating no longer equaled sex the way it had before. I knew more about myself, I knew what I wanted, and I was no longer willing to settle for just anyone that came along.

I became a happy single woman. I even enjoyed living alone. I realized that being alone and being lonely weren’t the same thing.

I met the man I am still with today during this blissful time in my life and while still on my honeymoon with myself, so there was no rush. I felt no need to be with someone to fill a void in my life. I found him interesting and wanted to get to know him better. I was happy.

We have been together for sixteen years. I often joke with him, saying that he “ruined my life” by being so wonderful. I can also say that he hit twenty-four out of the twenty-five qualities that I wanted in a partner. Even though he doesn’t dance, I decided that was not a deal breaker.

There are morals to my story…

One is that the JW view of dating and sex can lead to warped and twisted thinking – that in turn leads to low self-esteem that can lead to harmful situations.

Another lesson is that when a good and trusted friend tells you the truth about yourself, it’s probably a good time to listen and take stock. Learn who you are and what you want and then move in that direction. The rest will fall into place.

Mickey Hudson shares her story of growing up confused about relationships…

Watch a longer version of Mickey Hudson’s video here:
Growing Up JW and Female. Lessons I Learned.


Photo Image credit: Joe Zlomek


Comments

Love & Sex: What I’ve Learned Since Leaving Watchtower — 50 Comments

  1. This was a beautiful article and just what I needed at this point in my life. I just left the borg 1 year ago and have been single for 12 years since leaving my abusive witness husband. It is difficult to re-enter the dating world being over 50 and not knowing what the world is about after being sheltered so long. Thank you for so eloquently opening my eyes to my value as a person. I am going to make the list you suggested of 25 things I like about myself and what I am looking for. Bless you, <3

    Can you please give me a link to this excellent article so I can use it on Yahoo Answers in Religion and Spirituality so it can benefit other people. 🙂

    • It sure can be rough, but it can get better. I think the most important thing that happened was getting comfortable with myself. That was the hardest part, but once I got there, it was good. I’m not always comfy in my own skin; I don’t think anyone is all the time. I’m just no longer that ball of insecure jello I used to be, and that’s a good place to be.

      I’m not sure what you mean by “give me the link”. The link is at the top of the browser window isn’t it? If I’m not understanding the request, please let me know.

      • I feel sorry for all whose heart have hardened against the truth. First Jehovah’s Witnesses never claimed that all who become Witnesses are perfect. And if you or any one you know had a bad experience with them I feel bad. But I was raised in the truth and I am not in the least confused about love or sex. And statistically speaking Jehovah’s Witnesses have a much lower divorce rate. And their children are not brainwashed they grow up to be very intelligent adults that thrive in this crazy mixed up world

        • I am Danmera/Mickey, and I just wanted to thank you for reading the article and taking the time to post a response. Please read some of the other responses to this article.
          I am glad that you are looking into things, and hope you continue to read information about the Watchtower.

  2. Oh boy, do I wish I had this information when I got married the first time. Micky is spot on! She puts it down in black and white exactly the way it is in the WT org! One of the best I have read on the subject. Thank you Micky!

  3. Amazing. .I often felt this way but articulated it so well.
    I never knew we could hurt men..they have feelings..they cry..
    As a woman I have a right just like a man to be pleasured…if forced upon this is tape..yes even by a spouse..as in my case. .well said..

  4. Interesting, at our congregations it was the opposite. Women were presented as lazy, sex-starved nobodies who were all desperate for men so they could stop working and have babies. The men were presented as something very special and above all these lowly little sisters. At one district convention, the speaker even chastised women who wanted to be married, saying, “There just aren’t enough single brothers to go around.” Can you imagine how that made those men feel? Strutting around like they were a grand prize we all lusted after, all of them assuming we single sisters were just waiting in the wings, praying they would look our way. Probably contributed to all the domestic violence I saw as well. “Hey, you don’t like it, what are you going to do, leave me? Ha!” I don’t remember learning a lot about love and a real relationship at the Hall either, just a lot of what you must do as a woman and how it doesn’t matter what you want or how you feel and just shut up and sit in the corner and I’ll tell you when you can speak. God those people screwed me up big time, LOL!

    • The lesson is still the same. Men are better, women are nothing. Love isn’t in the equation. They even degrade it by calling it a “mate” finding a “mate”…suitable “mate” etc. Like we are farm animals. It does turn marriage into an ownership situation, a very cold institution.

      • I think the misandry I learned as a JW is one thing I hate most of all. I know in my head that not all men think women are stupid little children that should shut up and get dinner on the table, but what’s in my head and what’s in my heart are very different. Look at all the wonderful, caring men out there, Bo Jensen, Bill Bowen, etc., and yet there’s always that little voice that says they’re just laughing at you behind your back. I hate that, they don’t deserve that. You’re right, love is just a word with them. I read an entry on jwstruggle today and he noted how elders are appointed based on how well they perform all the congregation duties, service, give talks, but how loving they are? Never a factor! Marriage is all about rules and structure and everyone has their place and here’s a list of what’s evil, but what about loving each other and just enjoying a relationship and life? Ha! Not for JWs!

        • It’s amazing how this so called “loving” organization is anything but loving. Conditional love, cold marriages, cold people. Slapping a smile on your face, wearing a skirt instead of pants, or knowing how to tie a Windsor knot, does not “loving” make.

          • I had to get out, get away and actually LEARN ABOUT LOVE!
            SAD HUH…

            Their are HUNDREDS of ways to love!

            I love the way your seeing the different characters when it comes to LOVE!
            Yes, I LOVE MY SON w/every heartbeat! I love the internet for showing me, IM NOT ALONE!!!
            I LOVE the Ladies, Lol… I love all of you who are trying to RE-LEARN what real love is!!! (US MEN ARE OUT THERE, LET US FIND YOU!!)
            I’m the most ROMANTIC MAN YOULL EVER COME TO KNOW? (As a JW, NO SUCH THING)
            The most patient (downfall) and KNOWING THE ABUSE TOWARDS WOMEN,

            Its still an issue!
            Its just HIDDEN BETTER THESE DAYS!

        • It’s so interesting. My partner is a JW. I am not. He has not been with a woman since his divorce 15 years ago and since that divorce has been very close both geographically and otherwise to his family who are very devout. He is less so due to some things that happened in the fellowship during his divorce. His views about sex and intimacy are an issue in our relationship, as well as the constant pressure to be married. I absolutely respect that there are rules surrounding having sex outside of marriage, and also not living together etc. but it’s still hard for me not to worry about what this will translate to when we do get married. His attitude towards sex is very dismissive. To me it’s important. I dunno. For a while I thought he was just not that attracted to me physically. Now I think it’s just programming. Anyway I am not sure how to address this. Any advice would be appreciated.

      • Just like Islam. there seems to be little difference in their Misogynistic attitudes. Wow, what a difference it makes to your life to be free of all “man made religious clap trap”. So glad to be an Atheist now and love and live without all this inhuman patriarchal control and the freaks behind it and all those that promote it “as truth” in almost every religion on this earth.

  5. Wow! The way you tell this part of your life is a complete match with mine. I was at the “kindergarten” stage in “dating” well into my late 20’s, even into turning 30 I never dated, I didnt know what it was or how to, I always figured men just want one thing and I was never able to have the successful relationship because I did not know how but I dreamed of having that life since I was a child. Well I am in my 30’s and have spent the last 3 years single, alone, but not lonely! I have 2 kids too, but I have found myself, and figured out who I am as a person, one who used to crush easily, to the complete opposite. I can chat with a guy but with no intentions of going any further! I am picky and will not settle for anything less then I deserve like I did in the past. I love who I am as a person and I know what I want. So I will be patient as I do want a husband one day, but like you said, once you have the strength and knowledge of yourself and who you want to spend your life with, the rest will fall into place! Thank you for sharing!

  6. Well, I’m glad someone finally said it – great description of how socially and emotionally stunted you become growing up a JW. Thanks for the article, Mickey. Time for me to enter kindergarten…

  7. You have a wonderful way with words. It seems as if you are taking them out of our mouths. Even though we may not be so eloquent as you .

  8. Awesome as usual, Danmera! I still have the effects of the borg in my marriage! We are not taught how to communicate effectlvely with our partners, just told to be “submissive” and that husbands are to take the lead. how can you have a successful marriage going into it as a second class citizen?

  9. great job! i also clearly remember THE moment when i realized that men had feelings too. sounds so bizarre to even say, or write it. i was married to an extremely abusive elder for 10 years, he even did research in the WT publications because he just KNEW they said ‘women were a lower form of life’! YIKES! the few times i got my courage up to ask him to stop the abuse he said, ‘what are you going to do about it’? i finally left. after i left he actually was shocked and said, ‘i thought your love for Jehovah would make you put up with anything’! if you are confused by this logic, so was i… that was many years ago, i am now alone, and absolutely not lonely, strong and confident. i know what self-respect means and won’t accept anything less than respect from anyone. thanks again for the article…

    • Wowah! I can’t believe he used God as an excuse for the abuse. wow
      YIKES is right. I felt like a “lower life form” back in those days, the pounding home of you are the “weaker sex” women are emotional and that’s why they can’t handle anything etc etc was enough.
      Is there a quote from the WT saying “women are a lower life form” by the way?

      • Look at the Insight Book under Headship and you’ll see, “As man had priority in human creation, he is given priority of position over the woman. … Among the Hebrews of ancient times the superior position occupied by the man in the family and in the tribal arrangement was recognized. … Under the Law covenant the preferred position of the male was emphasized. … The woman was ceremonially “unclean” twice as long after the birth of a baby girl as after that of a baby boy.”

        So, I see the words priority, superior, and preferred, and somehow having a baby girl made you twice as unclean as having a boy. Sounds “lower” to me.

        • *** re chap. 10 pp. 53-54 par. 20 Abhorring the “Deep Things of Satan” ***
          Some based their beliefs on the teachings of strong-minded women of the 19th century, such as Ellen White of the Seventh-Day Adventists and Mary Baker Eddy of the Christian Scientists, and more recently many women have been preaching from the pulpit. (Contrast 1 Timothy 2:11, 12.) Among the different forms of Catholicism, Mary is often honored ahead of God and Christ. Jesus did not so honor her. (John 2:4; 19:26) Could organizations that admit such unlawful female influence really be accepted as Christian?!!

          JWs women are psychologically diminished “In what situations is it appropriate for a Christian woman to wear a head covering for spiritual reasons?” (w02 7/15 p. 26)!

  10. And, how did you feel the first time you read this?:

    *** re chap. 10 p. 49 par. 7 Abhorring the “Deep Things of Satan” ***
    Plainly, then, “that woman Jezebel” who claims to be a prophetess in Thyatira is a sham. She has no backing of God’s spirit. Who is she? Likely, she is a woman or group of women acting as a shameless corrupting influence in the congregation. Some associated women may have been involving congregation members in immorality, while brazenly justifying their self-willed course by misapplying scriptures. False prophesying indeed! They would influence others to fall into their own ways of “fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.” (Colossians 3:5) They would have those in the congregation indulge in an immoral, self-seeking lifestyle of the kind that is now countenanced, or winked at, in most of Christendom’s religions.

  11. The good old Revelation book. All about the “that woman Jezebel”. Any woman steps out of line, doesn’t know her place, has an opinion, etc….she has the “Jezebel spirit” Knock her right down.

    • this sill he passed to them so theywill know t hat you apostates are atacking true faith if you want to die with the world its your choice no one is forced to be in the truth you are not forced to serve God or do whats right, sex is good and a blesing from him in marage be tween man and wife ,all, and it is not the wachtower that douse any thing Jehovah sets the ruls not man, and all yl saying is twisted lies and just your ways to justafi you miss conduct

      • Mickey Hudson aka Danmera Dinglebum.
        Thank you. Now if you would be so kind as to explain what you mean to the non-JWs who read this.
        The dictionary defines apostate as a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle. There are JWs who renounced their former religions to become JWs. So please explain what you mean when you use “apostate” as a dirty word and name-calling.
        Please define “the truth” and how can you prove it. (altho most of the beliefs of the JWs are not my issue, the harm is the issue.)
        Please, enlighten me on my “miss conduct”…I would love to know what you assume it to be.
        Again, thank you for your reply.

        • I am from Nigeria. I was born and raised a jw. I seriously think the organization is on the right path when it comes to character building and stuff. But it also has a way of strangling the heart. LOVE is almost entirely isolated from emotional drive and subjected to ‘principles’ and sometimes stern action which in turn leaves u wondering if ur being loved in the first place. For example….romance as a useful ingredient in marriage is NEVER mention at the hall or any publication… Hmmm. Fact is..most jw marriage have zero romance, zero anniversary celebrations, zero everything. So u can only imagine going through life with someone of the opposite sex for so long with little or no REAL exiting memories….I still go to the kingdom hall sometimes but I don’t take everything.

  12. Danmera, I think this very personal post put into words what many of us have experienced at a Witness. I was that cliche’ 18 year-old that got married after meeting a young ministerial servant at a circuit assembly and getting married two months later. I was ill-prepared for life as a wife, let alone a JW wife.

    After getting out of the organization, a very dear friend told me I needed to learn to be alone without being lonely. That was one of those epiphany moments, and truer words were never spoken.

    Thanks for sharing this experience with us. I know many can relate.

  13. Mickey, that was one of the best, most insightful things I’ve read in a while!

    I only know all of this from the perspective of a male, growing up in the organization.

    My mom had much of the same views as you did. Except they were a bit more intense in that she had been molested all through her childhood. She had a strong distaste and distrust for men.

    That’s not a good thing when you are the mother of 2 boys. She had the view that men only wanted sex and couldn’t control those urges. She was TERRIFIED that my brother and I would masturbate. It was more than viewing it as wrong. It was an incredible fear for her.

    So I grew up believing her view of men. It lead to me feeling like a pervert, as well as strangely abnormal for doing what all young dudes do. In fact, I quit pioneering for a few months when I was 17 because I felt that God hated me for masturbating.

    Sex IS a dirty thing in the org. When there are so many rules against something, one can’t help but feel that it’s a negative thing. You are afraid that even you and your WIFE may violate Gods law in the bedroom if things get too hot and heavy.

    Anyway, that you for that wonderful article. It was extremely enlightening to me to read this from a woman’s perspective!

  14. Many of these attitudes were held by my parents, Baptists, a very long time ago. I have always been sad they couldn’t know what my wife and I know simply because it was somehow in the interest of the institution to keep them ignorant of their common needs and longings. Well done.

  15. I’ll give you a perfect example of how messed up they can make a young persons thinking about sex. When I hit puberty of course I discovered masturbation. I felt so guilty about it because of the things said in the YPA book and other publications and on the podium that I prayed for Jehovah to spiritually castrate me so that I wouldn’t be destroyed at armageddon for basically what amounted to intense sexual tension that results from all the surging hormones. At this age I should have been doing sports, dating, music, and whatever other fun stuff I could have gotten into related to school. Instead I was antisocial, depressed, and obsessed with sex in spite of my wish for the opposite. The watchtower does horrid things to a child coming of age. No wonder we have an influx of teens being kicked to the curb for normal average teen angst behavior. What they need is an understanding non judgemental parent who can walk them through this. Instead they get to be raised in a place where to be normal and healthy is institutionalized as sinful.

    • That’s another thing. What’s the best way to get someone to think of an elephant? Tell them not to think of an elephant.
      The sex issue is don’t think about sex…but first let’s tell you all the types of sex we feel are bad…now think about sex…lets talk about how wrong masturbation is…but don’t think about sex…let’s talk about women bodies, and the parts they shouldn’t be showing…but don’t think about sex….oh and my personal favorite, from the WT Sept, 15, ’73 “Did you know, for example, that mothers and fathers who stroke the genitals of their fretful babies to keep them quiet are unwittingly encouraging them to become masturbators later on?” (seriously??)
      It’s a set up. And yes, it’s damaging.

      • You are absolutely right and this kind of behavior and teaching is just the thing that needs to be brought to light. These are not jokes. No sarcasm should even be allowed in this kind of forum.

      • You are right, the best way to get someone to think of an elephant is to tell them not to think of an elephant. I always wonder why JWs publications are full of sex and how they love this story of Demons having sex with human wives. I thought it was a kind of warning but finally realized, the opposite is true, they CREATE sex obsession in the mind of readers.

        What is this for? “My wife committed adultery with one of my former students”

        *** w12 8/15 p. 28 par. 13 Stand Firm and Avoid Satan’s Traps! ***
        An improper romantic relationship could develop within the congregation. Consider this true-life example. Daniel and his wife, Sarah, were regular pioneers. Daniel was also “a never-say-no elder,” as he puts it. He eagerly accepted every privilege that came his way. As part of his ministry, Daniel conducted five Bible studies with young men—three of whom got baptized. These newly baptized brothers needed considerable help. When Daniel was busy with his various theocratic assignments, Sarah often provided that help. Soon this pattern developed: Daniel’s former Bible students needed emotional support, and they received it from Sarah. She needed attention, and she got it from Daniel’s Bible students. A deadly trap had been set. “Months of my wife’s giving of herself drained her spiritually and emotionally,” says Daniel. “This, coupled with the fact that I had been neglecting her, led to a disastrous turn of events. My wife committed adultery with one of my former students. She had become spiritually weak right under my nose, and I was too concerned about all my privileges even to notice it.” How can you avoid such a tragedy?

  16. My wife is a Nurse! I expected her to value more being a Nurse than a JW. One day, I was in sitting room watching TV and could hear her teaching two kids, a boy and a girl aged 7 and 8 years! They were our guests (in holidays)!
    I could hear her teaching them stupid things about sex and got worried. I inquired about the situation and what a surprise, she was teaching them chapter 10 of the book “Learn From the Great Teacher”! I read the cahpter and ask her, WHY ARE YOU KILLING THE CHILDREN?
    She said the book is from the “SLAVE”! Why are you mixing DEMONS, SEX, and …
    It was a starting point to understand why in my congregation, many people were showing signs of sex obsession, the book is really “CHILD KILLER”!! I am fighting now to protect my 3-year son from that POISON!!!

  17. Hi my friends . . .

    I can empathize with all of you women who have issues with some very basic things that are wrong in the JW organization concerning it’s “official view” of women .

    They seem to have the “headship principle” somewhat understood . But they never seem to want to publish the fact that there is no great superiority of the man over the woman . . . It isn’t an equal playing field for women in that organization of men . . .

    Chauvinism is one of their major problems .

    Even though Eve was created as a helper and a complement of Adam , the WTO doesn’t understand that Adam was also a help-mate and a complement to Eve .

    Both were equal as human creations . They ought to bring this out from time to time in their literature .

    …………………………………………………………………………..

    There is one thing that the Watchtower Society had never written in their publications . They have assumed the same thing about this word “fornication” . . . the same as the rest of Protestantism , and the same as Catholicism . Catholicism had used this word fornication to mean that it included premarital sex . To this day , the Catholic definition of this word includes fornication to mean sex before marriage . Protestantism also says that this word “pornea” means , in part , premarital sex . However if we look this word up and do an examination of it , we find that it was a word used in the Christian Greek Scriptures that meant “harlotry” . Nothing more . . . nothing less . This was the sin that was meant in the Gospel writings and the apostolic letters .

    Just look this up in the JW’s “Insight On The Scriptures” (vol. 1) book . Under the word “Fornication” the JW organization says that this word includes ” Illicit sex relations outside of Scriptural marriage . ” It admits that the Greek word is “porneia” . And without any research into the etymology of this word , ( that is , a research into the original meaning of the word , ) the WTS says that it includes premarital sex . They classify this word as meaning adultery , unlawful marriage , prostitution , by 2 or more persons or a beast , and they throw in the act of rape . But if we do a thorough examination of this word “pornea” we find that it has a base word that literally means red bricks . That’s right . Red Bricks . It was red bricks that were used to build the kilns under the dwellings in early times in Jerusalem . These warming ovens were places in the underworld of Jerusalem where harlots would do their business . So it was clearly stated to those early Christians that HARLOTRY was forbidden for Christians . Was it rape ? Was it premarital sex ? Was it bestiality ? Was it adultery that was meant by the term “pornea” ? No . The Bible speaks against such things somewhat . But it never speaks against having sex before marriage . That thought was never brought into “Christian Doctrine” until the Council of Nicaea in 325 . And somehow Protestantism has mainly since then just accepted the idea of premarital sex as being wrong in God’s eyes , right on down to this day .

    My point here is that what the Scriptures really say is not necessarily what the Scriptures say . I have downloaded 13 pages off of the Internet of old encyclopedia and dictionary photo-quotes that explain what pornea really meant in the first century .

    If you think that the word fornication means premarital sex , then you have been mistaken . The churches of Protestantism and Catholicism and Jehovah’s Witnessism have taught this erroneous doctrine against Christians who have relations before marriage .

    I would be happy to provide further reference for any who read this . It has been disappointing to me that this Great Bible Research Corporation known as Jehovah’s Witnesses has missed this historical information . And consequently , they have disfellowshipped many thousands of unmarried people on a false premise : that they are “FORNICATORS!” .

    Sometime Jehovah’s Witnesses have God’s brilliant Spirit . Sometimes they don’t .

    So what has happened over the centuries since Catholicism decided that sex before marriage was the same as fortification is that innocent single Christians have condemned themselves for having sex before marriage . This was a control device in early Catholicism . And then with Protestantism . Also JWism .

    I think that “discreet slave” isn’t so discreet after all . . .

    And they are certainly not faithful to the Scriptures .

  18. I am sorry , but I didn’t edit a statement I made , above , about 2/3rds of the way through . It reads : “My point here is that what the Scriptures really say is not necessarily what the Scriptures say .”

    I meant to write : My point here is that what the Scriptures really say is not necessarily what the WT literature says .

    This is , of course , one of the basic things wrong with the WTO .

    bro dan

  19. Here’s whatcha gotta do.
    This year the Jehovah’s Witnesses are getting a serious wake-up call.
    Never before in the history of apostasy has there been a plan like this. Apostates are going to dress up clean shaven and in suit and tie pretending to be JWs outside of district conventions ( regional assemblies,etc.- whatever they are called now) everywhere this year, facing worldly passersby and vehemently defending the Watchtower against any “worldly” people that may get in our face as we hold up our signs.
    The signs I like best are the ones that say “Blood transfusions are the work of Satan! Anybody that receives a blood transfusion will not inherit Jehovah’s Kingdom!” and “Jehovah’s day of wrath is imminent! He will kill you and the buzzards will eat your flesh unless you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” We will also carry watchtower publications that back up these statements. For example from the Watchtower publication, Worldwide Security under the Prince of Peace p 159 we read:
    “those slaughtered at Armageddon will not be laid in graves with markers to memorialize them.
    Birds of every sort and beasts of the field will share in the benefits of God’s triumph and at the same time ,help cleanse the earth of the many carcasses that will lie strewed upon the ground like fertilizer, unlamented, unburied, abhorred by the survivors’
    The bottom line is Jehovah’s Witnesses really believe these things. I recall on plenty of occasions when going from door to door with pioneers, a householder would be opposed and upon returning to the car, the pioneer would say , “that person is buzzard bait”. You see, JWs like to sugar coat Watchtower doctrine to newly associating ones. Becoming a JW is a persuasive process that requires time. If the doctrine was offered in the raw to everyone they meet, there would be a shock factor and fewer would join.
    This is what we plan to do – offer the world JW doctrine in the raw. Give the shock factor. There is nothing dishonest about this. Unlike the laughable attempts by apostates in the past, this plan will have the desired effect. With an organization that takes vain pride in itself and its appearance, this will not be taken lightly by the Watchtower. Ask yourself- Has the Watchtower ever tried to put a stop to evangelists or apostates attempting to engage with JWs outside of conventions? Of course not!. The presence of opposers at the conventions actually fires up the JW persecution complex and strengthens the JWs resolve that they have the truth. Will the Watchtower try to thwart our efforts? You betcha! No doubt, the Watchtower already knows about our plan, and is taking action against it, but if we remain diligent this will be a success! With help from JW insiders we are hoping to soon have copies of this years convention badges. This will make us look authentic. We welcome all Ex-witnesses everywhere to participate in this plan whether in groups or independently and encourage you to make your own catchy signs just as long as they are neat and have actual offensive JW doctrine. Make sure to dress neatly in suit and tie and be well groomed. Remember, we’re not going to attack or argue with JWs. We are going to act like we are JWs!
    ALSO, holding these signs directed at worldly passersby is bound to stir up angry emotions from the worldly ones against JWs and the Watchtower. We are expecting that! So if any worldly person gets in our face, we are going to verbally defend the Watchtower as the one and only true religion and shout right back at them! This is gonna be a load of fun…spread the word…be there!

    • 101% Men as JW’s.. Mainly are pure sex and sex alone DEMONS!
      Growing up in the 80-90’s as a child to a young man!
      Being raised to SUPPRESSED FEELINGS! Depression, isolated from others!
      As I’m older now, I look back and thank God for my parents DIVORCE, the closing of my neighborhood KH!
      USUALLY BEFORE MY PARENTS SAID THEY LOVED ME (HEAR IT COMES) A SERIOUS BEATING And yes, bloody noses, dislocations and bruises!

      Now, take that so CALLED LOVE and get me to love a SISTER? Yeah OK!!

      WTF….

      After their Divorce?

      WTF IS LOVE..

      1ST JOHN 4;8
      “God is LOVE”

      BEING WORDLY, I LEARNED what real LOVE is!!!

  20. :-*I too left as I was disfellowshipped for going to visit a guy thatwho was not a witness and staying at his house ,never mind the town he lived in was so small they didn’t have a hotel. It was a case of what would the neighbors think. I had no love or affection growing up in a jw home and none of the brothers paid me any attention, they all wanted the gorgeous girls and if you weren’t pretty you didn’t get the time of day. All I knew was people dated and did dinner and a movie and that was all I wanted, so I gave guys sex thinking I’d get dinner and a movie. I finally learned I was getting nothing but used as I had no idea how to date

  21. Without trying to discredit the WT, it must be recognized that Witnesses are left on their own when it comes to sex, relationships, break ups, mental health, etc. Most of the articles present the whole subject as a series of dictates and some cold and stern mandates. Within such a tight frame a young witness is to find its own sexuality and define it. It is an incredibly difficult task.

    Who can tell in all honesty that a WT article has helped them in learning about sex? The basic anatomical aspects of sex? The stages of sex in life? The discovery a partner’s body? The various forms of sex? Anyone? I doubt it.

    What about the more important, intimate aspects around sex and Love, how the intertwine and melt, how they need to be present together? What about the idea that men ACTUALLY NEED affection, mutuality, caring, kindness?

    No usually, the typical WT article on the subject is a reprint of what the Bible says, that, while completely wholesome, it looses all of its power if presented as dictate. What the Bible says, monogamy, faithfulness, commitment should be the result of an open, unafraid, clear analysis of the subject, with NO taboos but simply a clear explanation of all of the beautiful and difficult feelings that revolve around the most wonderful gift God gave us: Love.

    Let’s not forget that Love and Sex are HIS creation and the way we transmit HIS gift of life to the next generation. God is not afraid of Love and Sex, WHY SHOULD WE???

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